No Carbon Fiber?!?! What the deuce?!
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@johnyma22
Thanks for a detailed update about this problem, and a very good explication with picture to show the core of this problem. And I am more than happy for the change to a normal black inlay on my KickStarter Limited ring..Thanks again for grabbing this problem by its horns and lets hope this IS the last bump in the road for the NFCRing team. :D
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As mentioned you'll get a email to make your change. Thanks for posting something positive.
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aahhhh anger!!@#$!@#$!@#!@#$%^&^ :x
The carbon fiber affects the readability of the inlay. The first samples were OK but the factory changed the material for the first batch.
Details are [url=http://blog.nfcring.com/unicorn/shipping-begins-stickers-packaging-app-updates-nexus-5-and-carbon-fiber/:2axhdk4z]here klick[/url:2axhdk4z] and in the newest update. -
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Have lurked for a while but have decided to register to comment on this situation.
While its not perfect that the Carbon Fiber ring is not ready, this is the reason why we have Kickstarter. If John and the team had to do this the 'old' way then we may never have seen the product at all. Using Kickstarter to fund this 'start up', they have been able to correct errors that may have sunk them before they were able to sell the amount they have done.
A lot of the technology we take for granted has had a lot of missteps and the NFC ring has unfortunately suffered a few. The Team will continue to honor our order of Carbon Fiber Rings when the product is of a high standard that the community requires. Of course if thats a problem then hey I'm sure there is a rip off ring available from Ebay now.
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Andreas, yea it's been pretty extensively documented but I will give you TLDR;
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The carbon fiber required a new (thicker) blank as it's thicker than our other cover/glue options. This actually meant we needed to adjust inlays too, this was about a month of pain.. This issue was caused by the assembly factory not building the rings to the spec sheets we provided them but instead building to an old prototype inlay...
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The carbon fiber composite make up changed at the factory in China. This composite change pretty much stopped NFC from working through it! This took about a month for us to source a new material and get it to the factory. This problem was caused by the carbon fiber factory changing their compound without updating their data-sheets or informing their customers...
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The new carbon fiber material we sourced was sourced during Chinese new year as to avoid delays but didn't arrive till a few days ago, when we ran final tests over in CN we discovered a problem with the glue distorting how it looks, we ran the same tests in the UK and confirmed this.. This left us where we stand today.. 2 months later with a big bill to pay. This problem was caused by well I guess me, I should have tested it further in the UK to see how it reacted to the AB glue prior to asking CN to test in blank... The atmosphere when we discovered this issue was horrible, a lot of people work really hard behind the scenes on making these rings and we thought we'd finally cracked the fiber problem after months of hard work..
The data sheet for the CF material and our clear coat states the two should work fine together, we're basically at a point now where it would take more time than we're comfortable with to get a working solution in place and we just want to get rings out to people to get people experimenting/breaking/discovering..
With all these things adding up I decided to bite the bullet and decided anyone due a CF ring can have one free once we have the problem solved and until then they can have a different ring (which they can also keep)..
Sorry, long TLDR, it's been a long journey ;)
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This is why I tend to stay away from things that are "Made in China."
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Just about everything is made in China these days, it's the only realistically priced bulk manufacturing available.
But anyhow, I see this as a positive thing in that the NFC Ring team are jumping on it and getting rings out to everybody regardless of the manufacturing mis-step, and continuing to work on carbon fiber in the background where it isn't going to affect the delivery of collections etc.
I for one think that the transparent inlay is a really nice substitute, I love being able to see the inlay - it has extra added wow factor.
And the Stealth bomber will be truly stealthy now. -
Oh, John...
I feel your heartbreak from here.
NFCRing is still going to be one of the coolest things ever. I also have no problems with just switching to a straight-up black/black ring.
Hope things start to look up.
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Oh, John...
I remember there were a few early comments on Kickstarter from people who just wanted complete black.
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I remember there were a few early comments on Kickstarter from people who just wanted complete black.
Yeah, it's compromise but it's a good compromise.
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> Backers that ordered black fiber & black inlay cover will have the choice to replace the black fiber inlay cover with black, white or transparent.
I originally tried to order a black ring with 2 black inlays but it wasn't possible on the order form. I asked and was told:
> We don't offer the same colours for both the top and bottom of the rings as it would make it difficult to see which side is your private information (palm facing) vs the public side.
So now I can get the ring I wanted?
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Yep, that'll be possible now mate. I'm liking the idea myself, I think it'll look well stealthy.
Just remember that it'll be a touch difficult to pick public/private sides if your ring moves on your finger much. -
When I think about it. That is one of the qualities clear coat is good for. When poured over a surface that has a small porosity or imperfections like scratches, it can fill them and make the surface look smooth. With a thinner carbon fiber weave, and being dark colored, the clear coat can fill the pores and make them look invisible, and also the weave itself. so this is understandable when stepping back. At least i think this makes sense. I was wondering that instead of just the clearcoat, or in it's stead, a solid, yet thin transparent layer can be put on first, then the clear coat over and keep the gaps at the edge to a tolerance that would not allow seepage onto the carbon fiber? I guess basically making a demarcation of some kind to keep the carbon fiber topography intact? Umm, yo. (<-For street cred)-Justin Walterich :idea:
PS :idea: Or a larger molecule clear coat/adhesive? Or a recessed metal edge and relief clear cover so that adhesive/clear coat only contacts between metal and cover?
ePS: I think a lot and very fast in my head. -
Oh, yeah... another thing, maybe. ;)
:idea: What about a carbon fiber that has contrast that accentuates the topograghy? I have seen some whose weave is different or has contrasting fibers like the weave with copper. I had some pics, just not handy. -
I think the extra layer would be difficult in that the ring would have to be thicker again to accommodate the additional material.
It is an interesting thing though, what this particular glue is doing to this particular carbon fibre.
No matter what ends up being decided on to solve it I suspect it's going to be a nerve-wracking process for John and the team.
With the contrasting weave, it'll have to be non-metallic in order to not interfere with the NFC inlay.If you find some pics, chuck 'em up on here - it'd be interesting to see.
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I was thinking that it would be, but I didn't know by how much. I saw someone mention a 3M clear coat vinyl laminate adhesive 2mil.
Composite Envisions had some great picks of CF fabric and also epoxies and resins specific to clear coat CF fabric. I see when you mention how metal fibers can affect transmission of the NFC chip.
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The image was just way too big.. link is.. http://compositeenvisions.com/images/reflections-carbon-fiber-2x2-twill-copper-3.jpg
And I'm sure the expense would be even more of a headache. But and interesting concept using the tags from the collectors kit and ring blanks to customize and test along with the special resin. if you hit up the site, the fabric they have is incredible. -
I've been lucky enough to experience one of the old CF alphas, the one with the loose see-through weave, and it is the most difficult and fussy thing to get to read on a phone. It really does not like them. That inlay also doesn't function on some of the other reader units I've tried it with, it's a lot to do with the thickness of the CF inlay and I guess the deadening effect that the CF has on the NFC inlay.
If that carbon fiber was still available I could see it being sold as perhaps a more 'security conscious' thing, because it really does cut down on the readability of the ring. But it does also lessen the usability of the ring which is a big thing, there'd be all sorts of complaints and upsets that it doesn't function on this phone or that, or is unreadable/unprogrammable with other units.
I have a sneaking suspicion that an additional clear layer would have a similar effect.
But, that'll be what John is working on now. I have no doubt that he'll either sort it or go crazy trying.Good grief... the coloured kevlar and the holographic carbon fiber are pretty spectacular. That copper twill that you linked to is nice too.
Things are certainly a far cry from what I assumed they would be after my encounter with carbon fiber in the 90s. -
Good grief... the coloured kevlar and the holographic carbon fiber are pretty spectacular. That copper twill that you linked to is nice too.
I know! Just looking at them makes me think of things I'd like to do with it! :D
