A big problem

  • Hello everyone!

    I'm not very good at speaking English, but I'm going to try my best.

    So, we have this project in school:

    My school uses RFID as door locks, so if I wipe with my RFID card, the door unlocks.

    So here, is my question: Is it possible in any way to use my android phone as the same way as RFID card, but in my phone I use NFC. I know that RFID HF(high frequency-13,56mhz) is the same frequency as NFC.

    Hope everyone understands and if you have questions, feel free to ask.

    Best regards,

  • Community Helper

    Well actually the NFC standard is a subset of RFID. So it depends on the exact implementation of you schools system.
    I think @Lokki can tell you more about the differences between NFC and RFID. But meanwhile I encourage you to read the Wikipedia articles about it (preferably in you own language ;-)

  • So in theory it is possible?

    And in my language there aren't very much information. My mother language is Estonian.:)

  • Community Helper

    The short answer is no, you cannot use your phone to open the door.

    The long answer is that, in theory, it should be possible (correct me if i'm wrong), however, you need access to the encrypted key on the card that prevents you from manufacture multiple cards from just one card (cloning the card). Not to mention that you would probably run into problems which requires 'card emulation mode'.

  • Community Helper

    Well not exactly as RFID specifys multiple bands.
    the long wave 125–134 kHz
    short wave 13,56 MHz
    UHF 865–869 MHz (EU) / 950 MHz (US)
    and SHF 2,45 GHz and 5,8 GHz
    (Sorry if the acronyms are wrong, I took it from the German Wikipedia and not of the English)

    So you see there are multiple options.

    As a short answer you could say you cannot copy the access card without a lot of knowledge about the system. Even if the system would operate according to NFC it would still depend on the tag type that is used and on your phone.
    In the best case you would need to write a small android app that enables your phone to emulate your access card.

  • Okay, so if this is almost impossible my idea is this. In the other school facility, we don't have that system, we want to build a NFC lock system, so I can open a door with my phone or with NFC ring. As much as I have learned about it, this is possible and shouldn't be very hard. Any ideas how to do it?

  • Community Helper

    Hi @kultz - the answers so far are steering you in the correct path. The simple answer is that you cannot do this as RFID is the encompassing standard and NFC is a subset of that. Your phone is NFC, not RFID.

    As per @Andreas' answer, you could theoretically hack the phone until it did work, but it's simply not worth the effort for the result.

    There are a few different NFC doorlock projects around, the easiest way would be to use an Arduino and PN532 reader as a base and incorporate that into a door catch. the school should be using electrically operated catches on the locks, see those for inspiration.
    There are also some of the Samsung EZON series door locks which already use NFC and run off 4 to 6 AA batteries, replacing the original door lock.

  • Community Helper

    There are also complete connected systems using NFC witch work with phones. I know a company here that has one of those.

  • So, it means we need basically new doors or new locks? That are electronical?

  • Community Helper

    the right locks should do the trick. they have a "normal" badge system but they should also able able to use their phone. But I don't work there so I don't exactly know the current state.