Same sized tags front and back

  • I guess I missed the update by John that the tags were changed to be the same size front and back and I understand that the issue is closed for current production since most rings are already produced.

    But for future design and production and as a sort of review, I'd like to note that I think it was a bad solution. How do I tell the difference between the front and the back tag? Or if you prefer, the private and the public tag? I only have a provisional ring at this time but it will be both inconvenient and a security issue not knowing which tag is facing up/out.

    Also, please excuse my bluntness but I think it's an unfair change to Kickstarter backers. I backed on Kickstarter based on the design showed there and it clearly had different sized tags so I'd be able to distinguish top and bottom tag. When I asked this question by email I got the reply that the change was communicated. In one of the 30+ updates....... But that doesn't help me at all, I can't back out of backing a project. You make it really hard for me to want to recommend NFC Ring to friends.

  • Community Helper

    well unless you choose a ring with both inlay covers of the same color you should be able to distinguish the inlays.
    please see also this thread, where we discussed this a bit.

  • Community Helper

    Yes, this was a change to both improve reading and to allow smaller ring sizes. It's neither fair nor unfair, it simply is.

  • Is there anything wrong with choosing a ring with same colors on both sides?? That was never adressed on the Kickstarter page. And after that it's too late because I'm committed with the info given on KS.

    I was planning all along to go with a ring with a plain surface, with tag colors matching the ring "template".

  • Lokki, with all respect to your opinion I disagree, I backed basedon the information on Kickstarter. That information clearly showed different sizes. You can of course feel the motives to change is good but I'm also entitled to be disappointed. As I said I know it cant be undone and this is just feedback for the future.

  • Community Helper

    There's nothing inherently wrong with choosing a ring which has the same colour on both sides. This choice was generally discouraged in various ways because it would obviously lead to confusion. But you were still allowed to choose for yourself. It was communicated many times and understood by most, some of whom chose to do it anyway.
    My previous statement wasn't an opinion, it was an observation that in this case form followed function. As it should in any technology product! The old longer inlay did not work reliably. You may have been able to tell the two apart, but it would have left you unable to use one inlay in most cases.
    This has a lot of basis in RF theory and the manner in which RF energy propagates as affected by antenna shape.
    Had function followed form then you'd be unhappier I'd wager, with an 80% poorer read on that inlay as compared to the shorter one.
    This was also communicated at the time when the smaller ring sizes were announced, before the project finished iirc. Ample opportunity for pledge cancellation if you weren't happy with completely necessary alterations, you just had to be paying attention - it's your project as well when you pledge in on kickstarter.

  • Well, when I look at the Kickstarter page, it's quite easy to get the impression that there are one or more working prototypes. In fact that is a Kickstarter requirement. Too bad the protoypes weren't matching the real rings then.

  • I just spent more than two hours going through most of the Kickstarter updates and watching all the update videos associated up until the Kickstarter funding completed. As far as I can find there is nothing in there about the changed inlay sizes. I read through relevant sections all the way through to this spring without a mention. I did find a mention in a video from March, but thats 7 months after KS closed.

    Please support your claim of informing backers before August 19 that the inlays would be same size. Give a reference to a specific update.

    Also you claim there has been the choice to have same colored inlays was discouraged. Please support that claim with specific communications as well, I have yet to see anything like that.

  • Community Helper

    I can see your point and no there was no update before the KS ended. It changed during fine tuning of the antennas. one of the sizes had a significant lower readability compared to the other size so they changed it.
    Just to get this out of the way (it was also mentioned to others before): KS is not a shop! Usually there are changes to the product during the step from prototype to mass production and therefore some things change change. At KS you back a project and enable inventors to release their product and get a reward for that but you shouldn't expect a "like a shop" experience.
    This is not meant to offend you or anybody else it's just a general note. If any of my written makes no sense please PM me. Normally it's because English is the third language I speak.

  • Community Helper

    And this is why it's frustrating when people insist on doing everything through the comments sections in kickstarter.
    Update 6/update 7 is when the change happened to allow the smaller sizing, the reason behind it isn't specifically mentioned on the update (apart from the size of blank titanium rod) but was talked about in other places including the comments section.
    Prototypes were in stainless steel. Inlays were redesigned completely to suit titanium. These were well documented changes. Being prototypes there is the understanding that the prototype is not the final version. Changes in design from prototype to release are neither fair nor unfair, they're done to maximise performance while retaining visual style. Form does still follow function.
    Remember during the project, back when (as I mentioned just before) the possibility of smaller sizes was raised?
    This was only possible because of the inlay change, otherwise the minimum circumference of the ring would be larger. Because of the larger inlay which was shown to work less well on a wide range of devices the decision was made to alter the design to incorporate two of the same smaller Inlays with the added benefits of better, more consistent read on mobile devices and the possibility of smaller sizes.

    I honestly fail to see the need to 'support my claim' to anything, you received a reasonable response to your feedback on the ring redesign based on my understanding. I spend a lot of my time reading and watching videos and basically understanding as much as I can about the things I'm passionate about, this includes the nfc ring. You then receive the benefit of condensed knowledge which is used by me to help out. I don't expect thanks for this but now you're hovering on the edge of rudeness. My time is volunteered simply because I love this project and believe in it. I'm not here to be blamed for the fall of the Roman empire - if you want to do that then I'd expect you to be paying my salary as an RF and electronics technician with decades of experience in the fields.

    Just to reiterate - despite the confusing nfcring team tags on lafunamor's and my accounts we are volunteer help.

    So feel free to continue to ask questions or provide more actual feedback, I will help where I can, but please remember to be polite in your interactions with those who are here only to help.